Back in January we were invited in to CIUT the University of Toronto college radio station to do a live set and interview with Stephe Perry as I mentioned a little while ago on the blog. This week we got our hands on a copy of the songs and interview and I've posted them on the website. There are two new songs in the live set and 4 from the demo. We think Stew the sound engineer might have been high when he recorded these, but he still pulled it off. And this is the live feed that went right to air, no mixing or post production so it's pretty raw sounding, in a good way. My favorite part is probably when Brad and Steve's amps switch sides from left to right in Fallen, hahaha, but no one except us will ever know.
The interview is a marathon, clocking in at 53:35, and it's a pretty big file but funny as hell and it will give you a pretty good idea what we're all about. Thanks again to Stephe and Stew for all their hard work getting this to us so quickly!
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You think that was long. Here is the text...
TO THE LIONS interview
TO THE LIONS have just recently gotten together and feature members who have played in a number of bands which include, GRADE, THE SWARM, 78 DAYS, SUN STILL BURNS, TRUNK, PERFECT, VOICE OF REASON, CONFINE, BOYS NIGHT OUT, and OUTSPAN. They are primarily from Burlington although Sparkie lives just down the street. Their modus operandi is to play the kind of hardcore from the 90s that they grew up on and loved. They played live in Studio 3 on January 8th, 2006 and here is a transcription of a really inspiring and enlightening interview with the band about this band and about their days in GRADE.
Introduce yourselves and tell us what you do in the band ?
Chris (C): Danner. I play the drums.
Steve (S): I’m Steve. I play guitar.
Matt (M): I’m Matt and I play bass.
Brad (B): My name is Brad and I play guitar.
Sparkie (Sp): I’m Sparkie and I am the lead singer.
As opposed to all the other singers ?
Sp: As opposed to all lead vocalist.
Alright frontman. How long has the band been together ?
M: It’s kid of been a year right about now.
B: I think that it is a little over a year.
You guys have a pretty long laundry list of bands that you have been in before. Tell us where you previously came from. What bands were you in before or are currently in ?
M: The majority of us, three of us, Brad, Chris and I played in GRADE for quite a few years. Before that I played in the SWARM for a little while and 78 DAYS for a couple of years.
B: Before that we had TRUNK for a couple of years and then a little obscure band known as the VOICE OF REASON. Steve plays in a band called BEAUMONT.
Sp: And I was the lead vocalist of a band called CONFINE.
Lead vocalist. Everywhere.
B: CONFINE was classic.
Sp: I can’t play an instrument Stephe. It’s all I can do.
M: He has no other skills.
Sp: I sing one style.
It’s a good style.
Sp: uh.
How did the band form ? How did you guys meet each other ? What made you decide to start a band together ? How did this all come together ?
M: For me it has just kind of been, I had been out of bands for a couple of years and I had been going to shows and I had just gotten excited again with what the other bands are playing and I wanted to get back to playing in a hardcore band like kind of the way we started out. And I think that was missing. Some of the other bands that we had been playing in just weren’t really cutting it. We all love metal and hardcore and this is kind of always what we wanted to play. I have just never been in a band like this before.
You see I always thought that. I always thought that about you Matt. You were being held back. You were always doing other things because you were in other bands, but this band is what you have been wanting to do…
M: For sure. This is definitely my style. GRADE was cool and I liked playing in GRADE for a long time.
…and you could hear stuff coming out of that...
M: Yeah there was elements of….
But there never really fully was ….
M: Some of the riffs that I would write in GRADE were a little more hardcore, but for the most part this is really my thing.
Sp: The same thing with me. Between this band and my last band there was a five year gap and that was pretty much because I can count two people that I could rely on at least to start a band. One was my old guitar player Neil and probably Matt, who were really into the same wavelength of that style of hardcore that I started out with, that have the same influences and I know that band would be in the same vein that I grew up liking and the kind of band that I would want to be in.
Was it basically you two getting together and figuring this out ?
M: Kind of at first. I initially approached Shawn McGill, the other guitar player from GRADE, but he was just super busy and not kind of into it. But really my first and only choices are Brad and Chris because they are some of my best friends. I hang out with these guys every weekend and I love playing with them the whole time we were in bands together.
B: Yes. We love each other. I think just to add to it really quickly to is the funny thing is I think the older we get the more into it we are. I think that, my personally opinion on what happened with a lot of these bands is that once bands realized that they could make a buck off of it that’s when all of a sudden it didn’t become fun anymore. It was almost like we were pushing the boundaries in GRADE between hardcore and popular music and as you realize that “whoa we don’t have jobs anymore” you go how can we make this a little more sellable. Or how can we sell ourselves a little more ?
So that you can keep doing it.
B: So that you can keep doing it and I think that is what happens to bands. They are at that point where they think they are going to do this for the rest of their life and honest to god who is kidding who ? None of these bands are going to do this for the rest of their lives.
M: That’s really when the band stopped being fun for my anyway.
B: Totally.
M: When it became more about business, less about having fun playing in a band and travelling with your friends. It was more about where is our target market. That’s kind of bullshit.
Yeah. You lose the importance of the music.
Sp: And I think as well, in terms of the style of music we are playing and just sort of where I was at before it has been so long since I was in a band or since any of us were in a band the style of this that … … … um … I lost my train of thought. Shit. Fuck. Oh, ok! This was awesome and the reasons for why you are doing it aren’t … you’re just doing it for fun. You’re not really taking it for granted. You’re not really doing it to shoot for this … you know getting big or making bucks or whatever. You can take a more laid back. It is more about having fun at this point than it is about trying to reach some goal or …
B: It is like weekend warriors once again. Everybody’s working for the weekend.
M: At a not-for-profit organization.
B: And that’s the other big thing is that it sounds funny, but one of the things that we set upon right off the bat is that if we were going to get back into this we are definitely not going to make a profit off of it.
M: We are not trying to. We don’t need to. There are bands out there that want to make it and that’s awesome for them, but we don’t want to. We don’t need to because we know that we are not going to do this for the rest of our lives, like Brad said
B: And the real sad thing is that with heavy music, me and Matt grew up on classic heavy metal. That was my bag. Unfortunately, I was never really good enough to play heavy metal and now it just sounds so cliché for me to sit here and say “Yeah man, I grew up on MAIDEN and METALLICA” like we really did because then we just sound like SUM 41 and it is just a big crock of shit. You know there is no way. That’s the unfortunate part where we are right now is that we really did like this music forever but we just never really got hammered down to playing it until now because we were too caught up in the fact that we were making a bit of a buck off of playing.
M: Let’s face it. If we could all play like KILLSWITCH ENGAGE we would. We would try to be huge but we can’t.
B: Yeah it’s nice but then you realize that that’s the real power of music that you get back to the point of what it is. And I really feel sorry for kids these days growing up and what their climate of music is because they just want it all and they want it right away. The band is going to form. The first two week tour and in a month, lets get in a studio right away, find a manager, lets get a booking agency, a publicist, who’s your target demographic, what’s your major coast markets and all of a sudden now you have all these people who you grew up with who are all talking this gibberish to you and you just want to punch them in the face.
Sp: And I am just like…these guys all know each other for a long time. They all grew up in the same town. I am the one who is not from Burlington, but I have known them for my whole life.
M: Sparkie and I used to go to the same high school together.
B: Asking me for autographs (laughter).
Sp: Later on can we all do a talking shit moment because that just reminded me of one. But these guys are sort of from a different clique then what I am from and just starting this off and circling back on the questions it is good that you can find four other guys that have the same perspective on hardcore that you do.
It is pretty rare.
Sp: And then touching on what Brad was saying bands start off and they don’t really want to pay their dues. They want to hit the big time right away and when you see that with bands doing these tours and having their guarantees, and having fifty different shirts because they want to wrack up a thousand dollars of merch a night. Really the only people who get screwed over are the kids that come to shows.
B: Yeah, the bands become business. The funny thing is that is the furthest thing that anyone ever wanted in music was business. Big business. It’s sickening.
M: Kids don’t even know what a $5 or $10 show is. They are just used to going to the Kool Haus to see MY CHEMICAL ROMANCE play for $20.
B: Yeah $20, that’s cheap.
Sp: And that’s a punk rock show.
M: A t-shirt is $25 or $30. That’s completely ridiculous to us.
It makes you wonder what the fuck happened ?
B: You know what ? When did it go wrong ? And unfortunately I feel that we were part of the problem.
M: What went wrong really is that those bands should not be associated with hardcore because they are so completely removed from our scene but yet they are and they are claiming ownership to that space.
It is a turf war a bit in terms of culture. And you guys have a great sound and the way to fight this is to have really great bands with people who are focused on music and don’t give a hit about that stuff.
B: We kind of came across with a mandate of, as the band progressed we thought, you know what there is not one guy in this band that wants to make it and another who have a job and a family. It really is five people who think exactly the same. That we love it. This music is my life, but it doesn’t mean that I need to kill myself on the road anymore and it took me a couple of years to really understand that I can love this with all my heart and without having to go out and do it full time. It can really be what it is to me a hobby. I think you got five guys who are doing that. The funny thing is we started playing shows and we weren’t really going to play shows right away and then when we got around to doing our first show we sold our t-shirts for $5.00 and kids were like “$5.00 t-shirts.” We made sure that the demoes were free because it’s bold to charge for a demo and all of a sudden we had these kids coming up to us going this is insane. And next thing you know kids are offering us their pocket change. So we decided now we have a manifesto about …all of a sudden we have this cause which we never did before and it just felt so right so every show we played after that it was free and we kind of came with this mandate hey kids this is what music was like back in the day and then you’ve got these kids that are 18 and 19 years old coming up to us and going this is cool. They think this is rad and I think we are on the cusp of this really neat thing…
…you kind of changed the paradigm of the scene….
B: … It really just boils down to playing music that we honestly are playing from the heart. Nobody is coming in with the “I got a pop riff” or the “hook”. It is just we are honestly making music and it feels good to make music that people actually like for what it is and not because it is a product that is being marketed. I’m stoked.
Yeah and I think it comes through. The manifesto on your website. You mentioned the manifesto.
Sp: It’s 130 pages long (laughter).
M: It’s a bit tongue and cheek.
For sure it’s in gest, but it speaks to the passion behind just wanting to make great music and you mentioned hardcore from a certain period. What is the hardcore that you speak of. Because you can speak of a decade, I think it was the 90’s. It was a big decade. A lot of hardcore derivation took place in that decade. What hardcore are you talking about and what hardcore is missing from today’s scene ?
M: We could claim, like a lot of other hardcore bands do that MINOR THREAT, DEAD KENNEDYS, BLACK FLAG …. that stuff is awesome, but we weren’t around when that stuff came out this came out so the 90’s is really our time when we all got into it. Like the New York hardcore thing was kind of over in the 90’s by the time we got into it. Like GORILLA BISCUITS and all those bands had broken up. That whole Rev scene. So it was kind of like when hardcore started to become more metal and those kind of bands were really what we grew up on.
B” yeah the funny thing is… we talk about this all the time too…. for me because I was listening to a lot of metal music and I was listening to the first Victory releases and listening to like INTEGRITY and SNAPCASE and my friends were like this is really cool metal music, it’s just simplified. And I was like it’s not metal it’s hardcore.
So it was like INTEGRITY…
B; Yeah for me it was like INTEGRITY and SNAPCASE.
M: UNBROKEN was a big band for us. UNBROKEN and UNDERTOW.
B: EARTH CRISIS for sure.
Sp: Yeah and as for myself, in fact when I started getting into it I was lucky if there was one or two kids in the whole school that listened to hardcore. It definitely wasn’t cool music to listen to at the time. It was like this awesome little secret where you are like this is amazing music and not really a lot of people knew about it. The internet was around but not everyone was on it. If you wanted to get your record you had to ….
B: Well you bring up an interest point that’s exactly what is wrong today with records is that it’s accessible. What’s this band look like. Oh click click click www dot boom theirs my space and there is the gear they use, this is what they like, here is their MP3 downloads. I can honestly remember back when someone gave me a FORGOTTEN REBELS cassette and me thinking it is the greatest thing on earth. Well what do they look like ? the seem so scary. Where do you get this stuff ? You really had to search this stuff out. Maybe you got a catalogue or a mailorder catalogue when they came in but I think that ‘s the problem with kids is that we live in this world where anything is possible and I could write it off right away. No they look stupid. Forget it. It’s over. People realize that we live in this world where anything is possible.
Sp: There is this band from Florida and they are coming to my home town. You guys are playing here and you are from Florida. That was so crazy, but now it is every day stuff. Every band tours nine months out of the year and it ain’t no thing. But when some band from anywehere in the States used to come up it was amazing.
And you had to be there. It almost required a certain loyalty. You had to see the show because you weren’t going to see that band again.
Sp: Or at least for another year or two.
M: And we would travel hours and hours to go see these bands.
B: I always found that funny, too. Like being down in Rochester or my wife saying can we go so and so and I’m like I’m not driving 25 minutes, but it was A-Ok that we would drive 6 hours to Rochester or Syracuse to see a show. That was no problem. Now I barely leave my house.
C: I’m not driving all the way to Toronto just to play live on a radio show. Are you crazy ? I’m going to miss the Simpson’s.
I wanted to ask you about the name of the band. TO THE LIONS. Where did the idea for the name come from ? I remember MK ULTRA from Chicago had a song titled “Let’s Feed the Christians to the Lions” and although MK ULTRA might not be the source for your name, perhaps the poke at religion is. Can you explain the significance behind the name ?
M: That is pretty much the gist of it. I can’t remember exactly where it came from but the phrase just kind of stuck in my mind.
B: I remember there being a twelve different band names on a sheet of paper. We wanted…what was the name we were set on ? It was something about a Harvest Record or was it an UNBROKEN song ?
Sp: No it was QUICKSAND.
M: No KILL TRAITORS was one of them.
Sp: Oh yeah. That was one of them. KILL TRAITORS. That was an ENDEAVOR song.
B: That was it. That was a cool name.
SP: Yeah but there was RACE TRAITOR.
B: I just think it sounds cool. Laughs
M: And honestly we didn’t set out to be an anti-religious band in any way.
Yeah I don’t see that there is much … I don’t know. We’ll get into lyrics soon. Do you do any songs that are anti-religion.
Sp: No. Anything that I have ever written…. I try not to write things in a way saying this is the way it is and my opinion is the only opinion. If anything…if I were to write a song about anything that touches on religion it would be more like questioning things rather than proclaiming to have any answer. Or having the only opinion. And that’s the way I have matured from when you are a kid and you think you know it all and you have really hardcore beliefs when your seventeen and straight edge and vegan fuck christinaity, you know fuck this and that and that’s just your attitude, but as you grow older you realize that ….
…it’s not so simple.
Sp: It’s not so simple, things aren’t just black and white and there is grey out there. Now I am just more about asking questions and realizing that I might not have the answer for everything and that’s where you get to a point where you just have to keep questioning things over and over and you probably re-evaluate things … I will my entire life so just trying to keep that in perspective when you writing things and not setting things in stone.
What are some of the things that you re-evaluate with your lyrics ?
Sp: Whoa.
B: It’s getting personal now.
Sp: Well okay, we’ll get into this.
Well the reason why I ask is because first of all hardcore generally is a message music right. There is something behind the lyrics. There is definitely thought put into the lyrics. And you don’t always get the opportunity to speak to the person who is writing them or it doesn’t always come through because you’re screaming them right. So give it to us. What are you re-evaluating with them ?
Sp: Alright. I will tell you about a little song that I am working on right now (laughter). It is pretty much directly tied to religion and specifically to abortion. And the thing that motivated me to start thinking about this was that trial that just went on about that 5 year old kid Jeffrey Baldwin. If you don’t know who that is he was this child who basically had been abused from day one in his life. He died when he was five years old. He pretty much spent three years … his grand parents had locked him away with his sister. They didn’t feed him. He was lying in pools of his own piss and shit. He weighed 21 lbs at five years old when he died. He pretty much suffered his entire life from day one. And when I think of that the question in my head is that would he have been better off not living at all. If you knew that you would be born and you would not be loved and you would not be cared for and no one would give a shit about you for five years and that’s the way you would die would you even want to be born ? So this is the kind of thing that …
…this is an example of how your lyrics pose the question.
Sp: And you know, I am not claiming to say this is what is wrong and this is what is right, but I ask the question to people who say everyone deserves ….every life should be born. Here is a situation where a child had no hope and would they have been better off not being born at all. Is it okay for that child to suffer every day of their life ? And I don’t want to say that that’s necessarily what is right or wrong, but this is a question I am posing. Think about it. And this is the situation that specifically motivated me to write this.
Okay, a slightly different question. What would be your favourite song from a lyrical standpoint and why ?
Sp: Aw.
Of your own material.
Sp: Yeah right. Just in terms of cutting to the point and having a really cool chorus it would have to be “Ride the Apocalypse”, which is the first song on our CD, which just cuts to the chase of humanity never learning its lesson and killing ourselves over and over again until that will be it. Until that will be the last time. It’s pretty simple and you can read it and understand that’s what it’s about. Just for me it is really concise and to the point. When you write something like that it feels right.
You feel like you’ve nailed it. What about the rest of you ? Do you know much about the lyrics and do you have a favourite song ?
(laughter)
Sp: This is the first time I have ever said anything to these guys about the lyrics. I am sure these guys are going what the fuck ?
B: Like what are you on buddy ? I thought they were about trim. I thought we were singing about some hot trim. I’m out. No. I think you have to take lyrics and you have to take that as your trade and if I said that Sparky can say that he doesn’t like a certain guitar part that he doesn’t like something that I would write, I would say that I don’t necessarily like the way that your screaming that part, but what it all boils down to is his craft and this is my craft….
Yeah, yeah sure.
B: The vocalist has the power of the band to take what all the five people believe in, but that is not necessarily true. I find that too many people put too much into a vocalist’s lyrics by saying that this band believes in this and this band believes this and this band is this, but really you are taking one guy’s opinion out of the five others. But guess what ? He’s the vocalist. That’s his thing. That’s what he can do. And I think that it is fair that we al kind of play around our own individual roles and then kind of dabble into each others.
M: We put a lot of faith into Sparky but we all know that we pretty much have the same beliefs the same principles so we know that he is not going to write anything that the rest of us completely disagree with. And if there is something questionable or something that someone might disagree with and I think he would present it to us and say I want to write a song about this. What do you guys think ?
Wait til he starts writing the Liverpool songs.
Sp: That song “You’ll Never Walk Alone”. I’ll just use that song. No one will ever know.
B: They are talking about soccer just so you know.
Yes. Football. And Sparky is wearing a Liverpool shirt just so you know.
SP: Yes for those of you out in radio land.
Well let’s get into the music then. You mentioned some of the things that you were into. Who would you credit as influences on the band ? I am mostly interested in punk.
Sp: It is a pretty wide spectrum across the board, like Danner for instance.
C: I only listen to a few bands that I would consider influences for this music like KILLSWITCH ENGAGE and IN FLAMES, I guess. I don’t really listen to this heavy stuff.
M: Yeah, Danner is kind of the odd man out.
C: I am the odd man out. I never listened to heavy metal when I was a kid. When I was really young I listened to GUNS AND ROSES.
M: Since we started this band everyone has been like “Here Chris. Here’s a CD. Listen to this.” We have been bringing him tons of stuff because he was not as much of a metalhead as we all were.
C: They told me to keep the liquorice whips in check.
B: Yeah Danner is a classic fan….CLASH maybe.
C: Oh yeah, I love the CLASH.
Sp: LIFETIME.
C: LIFETIME.
Sp: But we all love LIFETIME.
B: I don’t want to get into an argument but I’m not a big fan.
Sp: Aw fuck!
B: I think that is another golden rule in hardcore. You have to like LIFETIME. You don’t like LIFETIME?! What are you talking about. You’re CRAZY.
C: Here is some of Steve’s influences.
S: I listen to a lot of that early Victory stuff too when it came out. Bands that I like now I was pretty big on the THROWDOWN, COMEBACK KID.
B: I really like the new THROWDOWN record.
S: THROWDOWN’s really good. I listen to the WALLS OF JERICHO a lot.
Sp: I don’t listen to any new bands. I still listen to everything from 1993. New Age records. That’s all I listen to.
B: You’re living in the past!
Sp: DAMNATION A.D.
M: I skipped over eight years. I went from ’95 to like 2003. I didn’t listen to a lot in between there. I went straight from INTEGRITY “Humanity is the Devil” to KILLSWITCH ENGAGE and POISON THE WELL and that kind of stuff. I missed a whole bunch of years.
B: I really like the new Metal Blade kind of thing going on. The Roadrunner TRIVIUM. I love CHILDREN OF BODOM. I love UNEARTH rules. KILLSWITCH rules. I am kind fo stuck in that mode, but I can see that … to me that is still really good metal music, but I can see that that is kind of like the popular metal music now. It is kind of funny to think of metal music in that context again. But I also really think it is cool that metal music in general is becoming popular again. Good metal music too not like we went to see CHILDREN OF BODOM in December and it was packed and there were kids. You could tell they were in grade 8. Little kids banging their heads. There is a whole new generation now growing up with some really good solid music and musicianship and so I think there is still a hope for the future of music that doesn’t involve brushing the hair out of your eyes and squeezing into your size 23s. You know, that kind of thing.
Now that we are talking about music for a little bit if you had to limit your music collection to five releases what would they be ? Only punk records. You are only allowed to take punk records to this island that you are going to.
Sp: Does the island have a name ?
It does not.
Sp: Is there anyone else on it ?
No.
B: I would take “In Love With the System” and “This Ain’t Hollywood” by the FORGOTTEN REBELS. They would be definitely on that top 5. I love those records to death. Punk records. Probably a PROPAGHANDHI record.
Sp: Hey there is five of us in the band. Let’s each of us just pick one. That would be easier right ?
No you each get five.
B: So I am on three here. I am doing good.
Sp: Leave it at three. We will be here all night.
B: Dude, it’s not your show. Sparkie would be the first five releases on New Age.
Sparkie which record would you bring if you were going to limit it to just one ?
Sp: I would bring five SAMIAM records. I would bring the yet to be released one, I would bring “Astray”, “You’re Freakin’ Me Out”, I would bring “Clumsy” and “Billy. Thank you. Five records. Right there.
B: Are you being serious ?
Sp: I am dead serious.
B: Those would be the five records that you would take with you ?
Sp: Yeas.
B: wow. That’s shocking.
Sp: And if you’ll notice I gave me answer in about fifteen seconds.
I wasn’t timing but yeah.
B: METALLICA.
Sp: Oh shit!
B: Are they a punk band ?
It’s debatable.
M: GORILLA BISCUITS “Start Today”, no question.
Sp: UNBROKEN “Life, Love, Regret”.
M: Yeah I’d take that one.
See Sparkie wants to give more now.
Sp: DAMNATION A.D. “Kingdom of Lost Souls”.
M: I would take “Misericordia” over “Lost Souls”. LIFETIME “Hello Bastards”.
B: DAMNATION A.D. was one of the big influences that started this band, too. Just to throw that in there.
M: CRO MAGS “Age of Quarrel” and
B: SILVERSTEIN “When the Waterfall Breaks” (laughter).
C: “Discovering the Waterfront” (more laughter)..
S: I’d take the other LIFETIME record “Jersey Best Dancers”. A couple of STRUNG OUT CDs. You guys will make fun of this, but I’d take a couple of Mx Px CDs, too.
Sp: Oh no!!
B: That’s okay. They’re nice.
Sp: You’re done. You’ve been sacked.
C: I would take a FACE TO FACE record. I would take an ELVIS COSTELLO record. Old ELVIS COSTELLO. And I would probably take a couple of CLASH records. Probably …
I have to ask you which ELVIS COSTELLO record ? “Oliver’s Army”, “Watching the Detectives” ?
C: I only have a couple. I would probably bring “Happy”. I would bring “Black Market Clash”,
B: Really ? That’s an odd choice.
C:“London Calling”.
“Black Market Clash” has some great drumming on it though. I would understand a drummer saying that.
C: I love that record. Is that Tory Chimes ? Or Topper Headon ?
There is some great drumming on the B side.
C: Yeah it is pretty cool. And I would bring LIFETIME’s “Jersey’s Best Dancers” probably, but Steve already said that.
It’s your own island.
B: I thought we were trying to amalgamatea good collection here.
M: And I only said four so my fifth one would be PAINT IT BLACK “Paradise”.
Sp: Ohh that’s new!
S: I would definitely bring the “Alive and Just Breathing” KILL SWITCH ENGAGE.
B: That’s not punk ?
S: Oh I got to pick punk records ?
Sp: I think that’s a good choice.
S: I’m sticking to that choice. Sorry.
Sp: They might take it away from you.
S: Hey are we getting points for this.
Sp: I finished last.
No. no.
Sp: My answers were not very cool.
What plans do you guys have coming up ?
Sp: Big plans.
B: Well I’ve got to work tomorrow (laughter). I got to go home and make my lunch.
Sp: I’ve got a dodge ball game tomorrow night.
But you’ve recorded this demo just recently, right ?
B: the demo is just a demo because we, as again now because we are older we practise in the basement of my house, but we’ve built it into a recording studio so we actually put some pretty good effort into putting a studio together but we have a computer running off it and it allows us to demo anything instantly. So that demo was actually done in the basement just on a computer. A laptop actually. So it allows us to demo stuff on the fly and see what it sounds like. But we’ve almost got a full record….
See here’s the benefit of the technology …you were cursing it before.
B: Yeah it is. We have said this. We have actually had this debate many times. The debate of recording a demo and how easy it is now. And what purpose is a demo ?
M: Originally it was just for us just to hear the songs, but we thought it turned out pretty decent so we thought okay we can accept some criticism and we can put these songs out the way they are as a demo and let people listen to them.
B: Totally, but I think now the next step is a record and none of us are opposed to putting out a record without a label. We just haven’t gotten to the point where we have either decided who is going to put it out or …
C: …who’s going to put it out (laughter) ? We haven’t pursued it at all right ?
B: Not really. It is just good that we have such a history. We are fortunate that we have met a lot of really cool people on the way and that we have lots of options when it comes down to stuff like that. It just depends on what avenue we really want to take. We want to make sure that the person who is going to be putting the record out is going to understand the state of the band and that the band will fully take a couple of weeks of a vacation at some time this year and do a tour and help out with the record but …. I know now that record labels, rather than you signing a contract for his and this and that…in the contract have and you will also live in a van for eight months. I think they are throwing that clause in now because realistically the music is a product and you’re the door to door salesman. That’s really what music is now.
Sp: That was nice.
B: Yeah huh.
M: Brad really comes out with some gems.
It does sum it up though.
B: No it does and they have to understand that we will … listen we don’t want to take from them and we don’t want them to take anything from us. And I think a good label is going to understand that point that we are not going to take your money and run, in fact we are not going to take any money, in fact I would say I wouldn’t be opposed to taking any money. You want to put out our record, you can take the profit. Hey I’m just saying. If you want to put that much faith into this band to put out your product then I’d be willing to say you take back out what you want of it and I think that’s where we are at. We don’t need to take anything out of it. And maybe he throws us a favour down the line. I think it’s all about payback.
M: And we have done enough of this over the years to know what we are doing now. We don’t want to get ourselves in a position where we want to be taken advantage of, but we don’t want to abuse a label.
B: But to answer your question we are fully plan on putting out a record. And I think that was one of the goals that we set across. We weren’t really sure what we were going to do with this band. We were just going to be like this but we are at the point now where we want to make a really good record and we want it to come out on a label.
M: And we’ll tour. We are prepared to tour. Take a few weeks next year or whatever. Just we don’t feel any pressure to have to tour.
B: Like I was saying in GRADE it was like two weeks into a tour and it was like you are on the phone with the agency and we would be at a truck stop and one of us would come back in and who ever was dealing with the agent, Kyle, would be like “Okay, here’s the next tour. We are already booked this month.” We still had three months of this tour. And then another call would come in and at some points you were just like “I don’t know how much more of this I can handle. It’s two weeks and I already hate you guys.” Now I’ve got four more months. We had a couple of doosies didn’t we ? We had a couple of good fights. But that’s where … they have to understand that we are going to do this on our own accord. But I really like the idea of we could maybe put out a record and this band could kind of be a model of what we think would be a good band now and the attitude to have. These kind of scenes that we are in right now unfortunately is a money scene. All of a sudden the music we grew up loving is making a lot of millionaires, it is going to crash. Stuff like this doesn’t last forever. We had Seattle, we had grunge, we had the glam metal of the mid-80s, and we have the emo pop punkers of now and that’s where we are at right now. And the funny thing is, I heard this comment once that we have this whole great mandate but you were in GRADE. GRADE was basically the starter of this so called scene, but we honestly didn’t think that at the time and we weren’t trying to … actually when we did that last GRADE record we tried to make it as unmarketable as possible. It worked, it only sold like …. (laughter) depending n who you talk to … (more laughter)…it sucks.
M: We joke about it but it’s true. We had so many conversations where we were on tour and playing shows with some of these bands that now are massive and we were unpacking and we were sick of it.
B: Listen we were sick of them then. You can only imagine what they are now. We would be on these tours and we would have these conversations with the band who I am not going to mention names either….
M: Just say it.
B: They opened up for us.
M: NEW FOUND GLORY.
B: …and on one particular stop we were wondering if we could play after you guys and we were like whatever. We don’t care. There is my bucket of Budweiser and I’m happy. And they were like “you know what, it’s just because we’re doing a lot of big numbers in this city and our manager just called and we just got the sound scan huge” and it was like is this where we go from here. And honest, we were done with it. A lot of people probably don’t believe that that was a conscience decision we made, but it is not something that we wanted to be apart of. I don’t like talking to those people. We honestly don’t like talking to numbers people…
C: …and record company people are shady.
B: They really are and anyone who tries to tell you differently …the real sad part of it is I talk to these kids now and they are like “Oh you know, we are working with such and such label and they are so wicked and they are behind us and they took us out for steaks. And I’m like “That’s your money.” Every single label … I have taken advantage of friends like that who signed to big labels and they are like “Do you want to come out. They are paying for all the drinks” and well “Your paying for all the drinks and I’m still going to drink them.”
Sp: You were being flown out to L.A. for two weeks and recording …they are not footing that bill.
B: Come out to L.A. to record a record and it’s like isn’t this so great. Well I can go out to L.A. and record a record too. It’s the same deal. We’re paying. And the sad part is that GRADE tried to play it always legit. We really did. We never took any money from the label. In fact, we tried to pay debts off and now we realize that we were idiots because once you break up you don’t owe them a penny (laughter). And that’s the sad part. But the sad part is that all these kids … okay great your having a good time …. I always say there are two things. You can either be successful or you can be famous. Which one do you want to be ? And that’s honestly how I feel ? If you want to be a successful band and that can mean a million kind of things. It can mean financially successful or you can be happy in your heart and soul or your making good music or you want to be famous and every single band seen on the TV today of this genre. We’re not talking about the Britney Spears and all that because they are rich. That’s all these people are is famous. You are making the same amount as 7-11.
S: When was the last time that you heard one of these guys in one of these bands talking about how everything is going awesome and they are playing the music they love. They never talk about their music ever. It’s all numbers and markets and … they are just machines now.
B: The labels have them so whipped into doing label talk that it’s sick.
S: their fans.
B: And when did that start, too when they called them fans. “Yeah we really like our fans.” Matt and I used to laugh at that. When do you get to that point where you start calling average Joe people your fans ?
Sp: Kyle Bishop called me a fan. (loads of laughter) That was my story.
B: Tell us your story.
Sp: We were driving him to some club, me and Gordie Ball, and he was whining and we were like “Yo Kyle we’re all friends” and he said “Your not my friend, you’re my fan.”
M: Ewww.
B: Wow.
SP: And that was when “As Such is Progress” was out. I cried when I got home that night (laughter). I had to throw that in. I couldn’t let that slide.
S: And you threw out your autograph.
Sp: I threw out my autographed record that night and tore down all my posters.
B: No but honestly, when did any of these bands go to you “Oh, I just put a down payment on my house.” No its “We’ve got all these tours and we’re in such and such magazine and my parents basement is still really comfortable.” That’s what I am saying. There is two ways to look at it. Do you want to be famous or do you want to be successful ? I don’t think … you can do both but in our scene it is not possible. And these bands are fine. They are having a blast right now. Kids, I am not being a jaded old man. Have a blast. Go out there and see the world and meet people, but don’t take yourselves so damn seriously. Don’t take it seriously because it is not going to last. You are going to be looking for a job at my age too.
Sp: And when it’s over six months later nobody will remember you are. No one will recognize you. No one will remember or care who you are.
B: Rather, when it’s over look back with some fond memories and be like that was a fun time. I don’t think they are enjoying it as they should be. They are stressing themselves out and that is just bad news. I don’t listen to their music. I don’t buy it. I don’t like it.
I want to leave it at that.
M: Wow.
It’s a very great summation.
M: Brad should just get his own show, I think.
Sp: I know.
B: Are you guys hiring (laughter).
You were talking about the demo that you have done up on your website. You have sent out about 200 but from the website about 2,000 people have downloaded it already.
M: Yeah something like that. We don’t really have a counter on it, but yeah it seems like a lot of people are listening to it.
There is a lot of interest in the band.
M: Like people who we didn’t think would like this band just because of where we come from, like those who would be cynical… the straight up hardcore kids and really hated GRADE seem to be really into this band. They are looking past our previous endeavours.
B: We feel that we are finally shaking the monkey off our backs because I think that we have never been able to do something after that that people really took seriously or that we really liked. I think this is just a fresh band. We don’t really carry over the ex-band monikor.
M: There is nothing really to sell this band except the music because on our website we don’t have any photos, we don’t have any posing shots…
Sp: We don’t have any on-line merch.
M: No promo photos.
B: No swoops!
Sp: No myspace!
M: All they have to judge us on is the demo and that’s it. I think that’s really cool.
Sp: We are really lucky everything has gone so well. For myself, I definitely thought when we started this that we were just doing this because we wanted to do it and it would be fun. I really didn’t think that anyone would give a shit. In fact, a lot of people have downloaded it and there is a good response so far. To me, it’s amazing. It’s more than I ever hoped for. This last year this band has done more than I have ever done than any other band.
B: It’s definitely done more than any other band besides GRADE, but in terms of emotion and work and fulfillment and I just look back and go “Wow why didn’t we think of this earlier”, but it’s because you couldn’t have thought of it earlier at that point in your life. This had to have come now. I really think that. I think that …there is three people in here … we’re pushing thirty. I definitely think it wouldn’t have come until now.
Sp: I remember thinking “Oh my god, I’m 28 years old. I’m screaming in a hardcore band.”
B: Sparky shows up to practise, this is the honest to god truth, with his full blown suit and overcoat on, goes into my bathroom and comes out looking like he is 15.
M: With a cut off MAYHEM t-shirt.
B: …and camouflage track pants.
Sp: Oh my god, this is my Clark Kent impersonation.
B: I think that is the essence of the band. That’s it right there. I wrote …. and the cool thing about our site is that … I don’t know if people are that interested but we do a blog on the site which I think is really cool and we just talk about what is going on in our lives, but I think that I made a point once in the blog that kids don’t need to fear age because as we get older this is only getting funner. And now when we go to these shows with 15 people at the YMCA we are having a blast. This is awesome.
C: It’s funny how in all the bands that we have been in before we cared so much about how what we were doing, but now could give a rats ass about who comes to the show or who likes it or whatever. We are just playing music that’s it and now people like us. They didn’t even care who we were before and now they are into it.
B: We should have just thought of that earlier. Don’t try so hard.
Sp: We are trying hard not to try so hard. That’s our shtick.
How can people get in touch with you ?
B: Definitely check out the website. It’s www.tothelions.ca
M: All our e-mails are on there so you can e-mail anyone.
B: And I urge people to e-mail. We like talking to people.
Sp: Yes. We will reply to every one who e-mails.
C: We’ll write you back. Just let us know what you think.
No auto replies.
B: In fact we will probably write you back within ten seconds.
C: Well because Brad doesn’t have much to do lately.
B: No I don’t have a job.
C: So he sits at home in front of his computer and
B: I’m going on tour. I just thought about that. See ya guys. I don’t have a job, but that’ll change soon.
Any last comments ?
B: Thanks for having us on.
C: This has been a lot of fun.
I’m glad it was. I am so greatful that you guys came in, too. It was amazing to see you play. It was so powerful down there and …
B: Well lets just also when we talk about independent music and getting back to it the way it was it starts to with your radio show. And it starts with people like yourself, just so you know, doing stuff like this. You really realize the full extent and power of music and you become still excited about it and that’s exactly the thing. You can take five small town kids here that just put out a demo and still get a excited about it and I think that we have to look at all aspects as positive like your radio show and kids that are putting on small time YMCA shows. We have to look at everybody that plays a real honest part in independent music. The great labels like Chris Logan from Goodfellow Records and people that aren’t trying to capitalize on it and aren’t trying to rape it and aren’t trying to overmarket it. We have to give everybody credit. Not just the people that make the music. It is the people who still maintain a scene. And we’ve got a lot of teaching to do to a lot of kids to understand where you are coming from. I think that it is no just kudos to us for coming in but kudos to you to maintain this radio show and keep the kids excited.
Sp: We are lucky to have good friends here in Toronto helping us out.
B: See that’s why I like playing in this band with Matt and Sparky because these guys were always nice to people. We don’t have to worry about people coming back to us and going “You were such a dick to me man. Remember back in the day when I booked you and you spit on me.” We don’t get that. We get the “Oh you were the nice guys.”
M: Yeah, no one in this band will spit on anybody.
Sp: Especially this lead singer.
B: But I wanted to tell you that I think that’s how we should be advertised as, “the nice guys.”
M: All the sound men are safe.
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